The teacher and founder of the Humanist Primary School in Fürth believes that many women realize the full extent of unequal treatment too late. And even if it is difficult to persuade subsequent generations to make a political commitment to equality, it would be negligent not to try, says von Chossy. The famous feminist Simone de Beauvoir wrote over 60 years ago: “You are not born a woman, you become one.” Does this statement still apply today from your perspective? Ulrike von Chossy: Yes, it certainly still applies today. Gender roles are defined by society. However, Simone de Beauvoir was primarily referring to a power structure between the sexes in which women are disadvantaged. However, she did not accept this “victim role” without resistance, which is why she can still be a role model for us today.
Women have had universal suffrage for a long time, and restrictions and barriers in many other areas have at least been reduced over the decades. Do you have the impression that the younger generations of girls and women are receptive to the remaining goals of the women’s rights movement?
There are still injustices that no one wants to be exposed to. Young women often oppose this themselves and directly, less through organizations. But the goals are still the same, perhaps with a different emphasis. What I notice again and again in my everyday work is that many unattached young women don’t initially feel disadvantaged at all. During their school career, they are at an advantage compared to boys, because our education system is obviously often easier for girls to navigate. However, when they start a new phase in their careers or as mothers, they are surprised by the serious injustices that still exist. I suspect that the increasing number of single parents is an effect of this discrimination. It is at this point at the latest that many women become aware of the full extent of unequal treatment. But it is precisely then that they find it difficult to organize themselves or take on political responsibility. They often lack the time and energy to do so.
Opponents of the goals of the women’s rights movement have always been found in church and nationalist circles, among others. What other forces do you see working against the idea of equal rights and equal value for women today?
Traditional role stereotypes and images of women are still present in many people’s minds. In addition, many women today feel under a lot of pressure because they are expected to fulfill more and more of these images at the same time – being a mother, caring for parents, having a career. Doing everything at once and in such a way that you don’t notice the effort. The demands have become even greater, but there is too little relief or the opportunities to do so are often associated with a guilty conscience. Whether there are organized groups or organizations with the declared aim of counteracting equal rights for women, I hardly want to say, but there is certainly not enough political and social, let alone economic support to bring about real equal rights and, above all, equal value for women. For some, this would also mean having to give up some of the “cake”. At the latest in discussions on quota regulations, it becomes clear who represents which interests. And as long as no female pope is allowed, the desire for global equality will probably remain a pious one. There is still a great need for reform within many organizations. Particularly when the aim is to communicate values, it must not be forgotten that values are also communicated primarily by example. We therefore do not need role models in organizations who seem unattainable, but who appear to be natural and attainable – not career women with hairdos and lots of children, maids and butlers. We also need flexible workplaces with reasonable childcare, i.e. with appropriately qualified childcare staff. Organizations – whether meaningful or political – always have a special responsibility here and could always set a good example. If they fail to do so, they also cause the corresponding damage and thus prevent equality. Recently, the deputy editor-in-chief of ZEIT, Sabine Rückert, recommended in her
“Ten truths for young women”,
They should not fall into the “trap of contemporary feminism”. Can you understand Rückert’s thoughts?
Among other things, Ms. Rückert spoke of a lack of self-esteem and this is certainly one of the most important reasons for silently enduring injustice. One thing is clear: it is still predominantly women who bring up children and so they have to make decisions here. They can focus more on their careers or they can invest a lot of energy in bringing up their children. If they try to do both, this involves a considerable amount of effort and/or leads to a guilty conscience. Leading an emancipated life is therefore often linked to double and triple burdens. This is the price that has to be paid in order not to feel like a “second-class person”, and this in turn leads to even greater burdens. We are therefore not only affected by discrimination, but also by our own inflated expectations of being able to lead the “typical” life of a man and a woman at the same time. While boys still seem strange if they like to dance ballet, girls can play soccer with painted fingernails. We can “allow” ourselves more, but we pay a price for it. So perhaps the simple-mindedness criticized by Rückert does play a role – at least when we stop confidently demanding circumstances that allow even a professionally ambitious woman to have her own family life and some free time. Nevertheless, the same applies here: A whole society must take responsibility for equality and not just the part that is systematically hindered.
Why do you consider International Women’s Day to be an event that is based on humanist ideas and concerns?
It is about equal rights for all people and that is a fundamental humanist idea. However, it’s not just about getting these rights on paper, but also being able to use them in real life, instead of only being allowed to look at the opportunities through a “glass ceiling”, similar to the “glass walls”. Women not only want equal rights in theory, but also in practice. The Humanist Association makes this possible with many of its offers. As already mentioned, we want to set a good example and also act as a role model in our fields of practice. This closes the circle.
What topics do you think should be highlighted on Women’s Day in this country?
Equal representation in management positions is a very important issue for me. Gender-independent career opportunities can only be realized if the specific needs of working mothers are taken into account, for example through company kindergartens. When there are more women in decision-making positions, I believe this will become a matter of course. Single fathers, who are no less disadvantaged, will certainly also benefit from this. I therefore hope for more family-friendly workplaces overall. And if equal access to management positions can only be achieved through quotas, then so be it. The economic situation of single parents is also still a hot topic for me, as is violence against women and in particular the treatment of women who have been raped. There is still so much to do.
There are only two women on the executive committee of our federal association itself, and none of them at the top. How do you explain that?
I can explain why there are convincing reasons to get involved myself. To answer this question, you would have to find women who think it’s better not to get involved. But I would look at it with more optimism at the moment, after all there are already two of us and I wouldn’t shy away from more responsibility either. Perhaps others will follow our example. The fact that the full VAT rate has to be paid for feminine hygiene products in Germany, as a campaign launched last year
while the reduced tax rate applies to caviar and flowers seems rather bizarre to me. Do you see something like this as a real problem that affects women, or are such things more of a trifle in your view?
I find it outrageous that there are many luxury items for which only the reduced tax rate has to be paid, whereas children’s toys and children’s clothing, for example, are subject to the full rate. Having children is the number one risk of poverty in Germany, especially for single parents. VAT on feminine hygiene products is only part of the problem. I also find it scandalous that state support for economically weak families does not take into account the increased needs of girls. This should be changed immediately. For some time now, there have been attempts to raise awareness under the umbrella of a day of action entitled Women*s Struggle Day
to re-politicize the 8th of March. Do you think it is feasible for a broad political movement to form around the idea of women’s emancipation in Germany today?
Women worldwide must show solidarity and find forms of action that draw attention to the fact that there is still no fair and equal coexistence. I can’t say for sure whether a German Women’s Struggle Day is the right way to do this, but perhaps it will help. However, when I talk to my 16-year-old daughter and her friends about the issue, I hardly get any encouragement – even though I am a single mother of her and a son. If I’ve done my parenting justice, neither of them is currently at a disadvantage. This makes part of the problem clear: my daughter is not suffering, nor have I exemplified my supposed victim role to her. She may be just as surprised as I was when her perspective changes and one day she realizes how much I had to fight to give her a sense of the ease of being a mother. I also felt guilty about having to put them through a separation situation and fought accordingly not to let them suffer. So honestly, the more I think about it right now, the more I can relate to the concept of Women’s Struggle Day. Because it will be difficult to inspire the following generations without dramatizing – but not trying would probably be just as negligent.
March 8 is a public holiday in a number of countries. Should March 8 also be a public holiday in Germany?
Holidays also serve to raise awareness of an issue. Therefore, such a holiday would certainly be welcome. Establishing equality between the sexes is a worthwhile goal that should be given more thought. But that is not the end of the story. It is about combating unfair discrimination, no matter who it affects. In this respect, such a public holiday should be just one of many that remind us that there are still many humanitarian tasks and humanistic concerns in our society that need to be addressed and pursued.
The questions were asked by Arik Platzek.
